Curse

AlsPals · Sep 19, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

/Signed, HATE this change. If they absolutely have a problem for PVE though why not a concession.

10e
For 10 seconds,(everything it does now).
20 Recharge

It will be even more energy intensive in areas. This 5 second window of opportunity stuff does NOT count in PVE, where creatures will interrupt things as meaningless as auto attacks. 10 Seconds gives enough time to do things, while making that downtime more meaningful. I call dartboard. The nerfs I saw, justified by PvP meta, trickled down into PvE. Sleeping on the job?

nightcreeper · Sep 19, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Unbelievable how much drama people do for a simple skill, you KNEW that if overabusing 600s something will come sooner or later, you TURNED a COOPERATIVE game into a FARMING, RUNNING and VANQUISHING game just with 600s, and yet still have the shame to want it back, GIVE ME A BREAK, so you HAD IT COMING stop crying like babies and accept reality.

/notsigned

P.S. Shadow Form is next in line so be prepared so don't do more drama when the time comes.

AlsPals · Sep 19, 2009, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Even though this helps tone down 600 as some people consistently say, thats not the only use for this skill. Some areas in HM are relentless with interrupts. And yes, I used things other than Discord/sabway, so there isnt always meatshields to roll my way through areas. MOR also helped with abstract farming for mes tomes/avoiding melee interrupts.

reaper with no name · Sep 19, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

/notsigned

Just because SF hasn't been nerfed yet doesn't mean it's not going to. In fact, anet has already said they're looking at it. They just happened to have a quick fix for 600 (whereas they see SF as a problem requiring a more complex solution).

Mr. Undisclosed · Sep 19, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Not signed, people need to learn to adapt.

Age · Sep 19, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Why would you want to revert it completely? You just stated completely PvE related issues about how you used the skill so why do you want to ruin PvP as well?

Are you evil? Or do you play bspike?

I am evil

I wished I played bspike.

Change for /split.

Thenameless Wonder · Sep 19, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

/signed

Basically ANet wants to make MoR less effective, that's fine, but don't kill the 600/Smite!

BlackSephir · Sep 19, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thenameless Wonder

but don't kill the 600/Smite!

Because...? Any good reasons "beside" "i farm with it :(((((((((" ?

aga · Sep 19, 2009, 11:01 PM // 23:01

/notsigned

Need to kill off dungeon running...

Aldo wants more · Sep 20, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

/signed

But will this thread have any actual sway with linsey or the GW1 live team?

upier · Sep 20, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead.

sosycpsycho · Sep 20, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead.

Exactly and every nerf has just been followed by them OP'n some other skill to take its place. Ursan was spared until they hit the quota on EOTN sales. I support farmers. If people are so mad about dungeon running Anet should make them daily or weekly so you cannot re-enter them over and over. This skill was either a over sight or a jab at several farming builds and based on the developer notes that was never listed.

Nuclfus · Sep 20, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

"Mantra of Resolve is the sort of skill that can cause problems in how the game plays. We've made dramatic numerical changes to this skill, essentially changing its function from giving long-term protection against interrupts to allowing a player to only protect key skills from interruption. By reducing its duration to 5, we hope to accomplish three things: First, having much shorter duration compared to recharge will require thoughtful usage of the skill. It can still be used to protect key spell-casts but will not provide blanket protection. Second, by requiring the caster to use the skill right before casting a spell, we give enemies a chance to see that Mantra of Resolve is in effect. We didn't feel that it was reasonable for someone's interruption attempt to be countered by an invisible stance that was activated a full minute or more earlier. Third, we wanted to make the energy cost of the skill matter. Even though the skill only takes 5 energy, needing to use it right before casting a spell should be a meaningful change."

Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough. Sure the enemy ranger might waste an interrupt or two, but I can see plenty of instances where maybe your losing 5, 10, or maybe 20 energy to compensate could in the end cost you the battle instead.

The new duration is 5 seconds, flat. There aren't very many spells in this game with a 6 second cast, but those are the ones for which anti-interrupts SHOULD be a particularly worthwhile investment. But if your prevention still leaves you wide open for a whole second on the skills that need it the most (any half-decent PvPer will count the seconds and watch for that window), then does it even have a point?

Personally I'd go for either a) removing the energy loss to restore some sense of par with its competitors, or b) making its duration close to Pious/Mantra of Concentration. Probably just pipe dreams given the state of this game.

IntrospectivePirate · Sep 21, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuclfus

"Mantra of Resolve is the sort of skill that can cause problems in how the game plays. We've made dramatic numerical changes to this skill, essentially changing its function from giving long-term protection against interrupts to allowing a player to only protect key skills from interruption. By reducing its duration to 5, we hope to accomplish three things: First, having much shorter duration compared to recharge will require thoughtful usage of the skill. It can still be used to protect key spell-casts but will not provide blanket protection. Second, by requiring the caster to use the skill right before casting a spell, we give enemies a chance to see that Mantra of Resolve is in effect. We didn't feel that it was reasonable for someone's interruption attempt to be countered by an invisible stance that was activated a full minute or more earlier. Third, we wanted to make the energy cost of the skill matter. Even though the skill only takes 5 energy, needing to use it right before casting a spell should be a meaningful change."

Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough. Sure the enemy ranger might waste an interrupt or two, but I can see plenty of instances where maybe your losing 5, 10, or maybe 20 energy to compensate could in the end cost you the battle instead.

The new duration is 5 seconds, flat. There aren't very many spells in this game with a 6 second cast, but those are the ones for which anti-interrupts SHOULD be a particularly worthwhile investment. But if your prevention still leaves you wide open for a whole second on the skills that need it the most (any half-decent PvPer will count the seconds and watch for that window), then does it even have a point?

Personally I'd go for either a) removing the energy loss to restore some sense of par with its competitors, or b) making its duration close to Pious/Mantra of Concentration. Probably just pipe dreams given the state of this game.

a) and b)

I think we are done here.

Zera Fang · Sep 21, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightcreeper

you TURNED a COOPERATIVE game into a FARMING, RUNNING and VANQUISHING game just with 600s

No, we didn't. Anet did. They introduced all these titles to max, all these items to get and look slick with, they are the ones that pushed everyone to farm if they wanted things. 600 monks just grew out of that desire.

If they didn't want us to farm they never would have put in such rare skins or put in titles that require so much time to grind down that you have to either give up your life for a few weeks or work on it every time you get on to have a chance at finishing it. And don't you dare start preaching about cooperative play, this game is dying and it's next to impossible to find a full team of 8 people to play a mission when it isn't the Z mish of the day or vanquish an area when you aren't in a guild/alliance that focuses on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead.

Agreed. I could have sworn that Anet said it was fine with farming, just that they didn't like one class to overwhelm the farming builds. By nerfing MoR they removed Mesmers from farming raptors, which is one of the very few things that mesmers can farm. I think they're being hypocritical and pandering the the loudest of the minority when they nerf things like this, not to mention utterly retarded in their description of why they nerfed it. I've never seen MoR become a problem in PvP and with things like Wild Strike and Wild Blow running around MoR was kept in check.

Shasgaliel · Sep 21, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zera Fang

No, we didn't. Anet did. They introduced all these titles to max, all these items to get and look slick with, they are the ones that pushed everyone to farm if they wanted things. 600 monks just grew out of that desire.

Yeah sure. Blame it on ANET. We all know that maxing titles is obligatory..... Why not start with a gladiator one, or champion?

It is all your decision, your choice. People farm and max titles since they want to. It is not needed and not necessary. Anyway it is not the place for title discussion.

I am definitively against the reversing it back. I would not mind it being changed in a way it is not completely useless but useless for farming reasons only. Not sure if such a change would be possible without entirely reworking this skill.

Master Sword Keeper · Sep 21, 2009, 09:39 AM // 09:39

/signed

For the Pve/pvp split.

/notsigned @ hawk of storm's pesimistic attitude. Not everyone likes to SF.

So wait lets recap here....

[rant button] /startrant

We dont want to clear dungeons with 3 people, who are actually nice enough to take 5 other random people for the ride, but! We'll clear UW in about 20mins... Hmmm

1. Elite areas are elite areas because it takes strategy and common sense, not just mindless button bashing 1,2,3. Over and over and over and over.

At least with 600/smite, the smiter has to think of placement, skill rotation and above all where his team-mates are standing in accordance to the aggro.

it requires more brains than any other build in the game. Also, as for the pirate weekend, i managed to rack up a nice number of bottles from another farm using a DERVISH.

Goes to show, the more "versitile" players will know to create builds rather than rely on one solo build alone.

/signed for nerfing SF. we dont need it, we never did.

/rantover

Desert Rose · Sep 21, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuclfus

Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough.

Only at the first sight. The drawback of MoR was nearly non-existing, in the end the effect was that one or two of your skills (the key-skills your oppenent trys to interrupt) costs 5-7 energy more which could easily be compensated.

*Darcy* · Sep 21, 2009, 12:48 PM // 12:48

While I think 5 sec is too short a time, I don't see what all the weeping is about. I have been smiting for two different 600s since the change and they are not having big problems. But I am not happy with the effect on my ele's builds.

dusty4444 · Sep 21, 2009, 01:04 PM // 13:04

600/smite can still be used, just that now you actually have to know what skills you are bashing. Mantra just made it dumb easy for everyone, and waaaaay too many dungeons had runs. Stop whining and start playing.
/notsigned